draw thru turbo motor

by **FBJ admin** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:45 pm

Hi all, building a kat with a efe motor and draw thru turbo.
I want to use heavy duty studs and nuts for the head / barrels. Will I still be able to use the engines oil supply to the top end? or will I have to go external?
This will be the first of many posts on this, my first turbo build.

by **bikerphil** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:38 pm

You don't need a top end oiler unless you have a big block kit installed and have removed metal from the crankcase mouth where oil is transferred from the back stud to the front, via the cutout in the bottom of the barrels.

Ok, cheers Phil

by **BEERBELLYKELLY** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:33 pm

the reason external oil lines were developed in drag racing was that when using the 'heavy duty' studs , these restricted the volume of oil that could pass by the cylinder studs-beacause they are of larger diameter than the stock studs-these engines rely on VOLUME of oil; and not pressure like the shell ends-
also the external lines dont have restricter jets like the stock set up-so the oil is on the cams and cooling across the exhaust valve area instantly-very important on a turbo charged engine-as this is the hottest part of the motor-I WOULD use up rated pump gears and external line both sides of the head-
be sure to allow the lines to drain back to sump if possible or use/make a head oiler bar , not much to em-its M14x1.5 off the top o me heed-apart all that twin lines each side looks IMPOSSIBLY TRICK :ugeek:

also look into running the turbo oil return into the clutch face or a cav tank

very little metal needs to be removed from the case mouths to fit most big blocks- well i,ve been up to 1500cc so far.

a turbo charged EFE- suits you sir-

PJ I'm gagging to get it rolling, just waiting on Strangewayz to complete my frame. I had considered the diameter of the heavy duty studs and wondered what effect it would have. I agree that the external oil lines look the rollicks.
Heres a question, I have often wondered what effect the external oil feed pipes would have on the oil pressure to the top end. For example when I appraise a diesel engine installed in a customers machine one of the things I have to check is fuel pressure in several places, one is engine to tank, you get the picture, if the pressures to high I make the customer fit larger diameter fuel pipe to reduce the pressure. Bare with me, the bigger the pipe the lower the pressure. so if the cam oil feed pipes are to small the oil feed to the top end will be to low and restrictive. However if it's to large the oil flow will be to slow and not much pressure. whats a optimum id? Is that why people run oil pressure gages on the turbos with external feed?
When you say be sure to let the cam feed lines return to the sump are you referring to the angle that the lines will be?

EFE turbo deff suits me and I'm please your going along the same route.

by **BEERBELLYKELLY** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:46 pm

actually im gathering a heap of parts at the moment for a FBM turbo-so we may be chiming in regular on this one mate-

by **Duckndive** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:49 pm

You dont need really need H/D Studs on a street motor....and TBH for a road going turbo 1230 or 1260 is ideal..

even an asparated big block is just a pain in the ass on the road...BTGTTS....

My 1166 Draw Thru has H/D case studs but the head studs are OEM i run a graphite head gasket torgued 5lb over stock figs...its had 15 PSI down its throat with no ill effects....

Well only my wallet for race gas.............. :lol:

Cheers for the info mate, It's valued.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this motor, it will start life in my Kat, however I plan to have a short wheel base in the Kat so will probably end up eventually putting the motor in a efe or ET, or GS1000

efe motor of course. So when I build this I'm not sure what the overal plan will be or how much boost I will want. On the Kat I guess 5 or 6 psi will be fine and the motor won't be that strong, however, 50 % of me really wants to have a go at drag racing, so it will be in a longbike and I will need ? want more POWER, so more boost, so I want to make sure it's built good and strong, I may run stock efe pistons to start with, with a spacer plate.
FBJ

by **BEERBELLYKELLY** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:07 pm

as ever jon im building a nascar spec bike in my head-TBH- the stock studs will hold up to race use-roger turner brian emery and loads more ran stock for seasons but did measure them regularly-because the stock studs are rolled thread they are immensely strong-waisted shoulder-
they will as DnD says take more torque than stock-

ensure all the stud holes in the cases are stress relieved-and the threads are clean/mint! - if fitting HD studs be sure to measure the thread length vs the case hole depth-they can vary-a lot!

on the last race motor, we crack tested [vital before spending money] all major assemblies cases-crank-trans-clutch-and then went one stage further and DCT,d the lot-inc cam chain drive chain etc

always always been an advocate of building a tough motor from the bottom up-spend your loot to get a nice bottom end-then it,s easy days to hop up the spec as time/money/life allows-

on the subject of nice bottom ends it was great to see tinkerbell from OSS not long back-

ahem-the idea of aiming the turbo oil return into the face of the clutch is pop as many of the bubbles in the oil possible-'cavitation'
oil returning from a super hot centre bearing looks like a pint of caffery,s full of millions of micro bubbles-good for beer bad for uniform lubrication-a cav tank allows the bubbles to settle and pop before returning to the sump -some aim the line[s] into the clutch-maybe modern turbo oils have cured this ? is SHANIGAN PAULA IN THE HOUSE ??? :mrgreen:

BASICALLY my turbo knowledge is quite out of date BUT WE ARE NOT BUILDING OR INTERESTED IN SUPER WHIZZER 1000,S HERE-
newer oils,newer waste gates , newer monitoring and control systems are all relevant to keeping our REAL bikes up and nasty.

EFE-still leading the way and showing them home after all these years-

by **FBJ admin** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:28 pm

BBK thats all good stuff. Cheers ;-)

can't wait to get on it. A lad i work with has a turbo efe. He races it so aint interested in power. But recently did stick it on the rolling rd. With stock efe pistons 264 hp and with 1260 pistons nearly 300. He feels he is at the end of the draw thru so sold the lot to me.

he is now fitting a awesome blow thru and posh injection system. Hes up against turbo busas on his efe ;-)

8.5 class i think. He is also a fountain of knowledge in 1994 on his turbo twin nos efe funny bike he run a 7.20 at 190mph odd. Awesome ah

by **Duckndive** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:40 pm

50 % of me really wants to have a go at drag racing,

Then get ya road bike down to a RWYB and have a go to get a hang of the basis.....

Cus if your 1st experance at a drag strip is on a Draw Thru Turbo it will pi55 you off in so many ways you just wont enjoy it.... :shock:

ANd Augy should dig that old funny bike out of the garage ...he was well advanced in the 2 & 3 stage Nos game when they gave up...

by **FBJ admin** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:13 am

Still trying to work out what id the external oil lines should be, I'm a bit paranoid about it as the oil pump also needs to feed the turbo. what about if i measured the diameter of the standard oil feed through the head and got the nearest oil feed pipes to that?
Things to think about, Larger oil cooler, the oil needs to travel further in the external oil lines for the cam feed, feed the turbo, Whats your thoughts on this one chaps? :shock:

by **FBJ admin** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:19 am

Been putting a little more thought into this whilst at work, I dont suppose the id of the cam feed is crucial, obviously it has to be big enough to flow the oil to the top, i guess there will be a restriction in the top end of the head, that will restrict the flow. Has anyone got a image / photo showing the oil path for the engine gsx motor?